500 S&W / 38 special and 9mm Mihec mold wet pack tests with some 40 S&W thrown in for good measure

Summer range time has been lots of matches (6 or 7 so far?) and a few range work days (with additional range time afterwards). Been developing new loads for some new bullets/guns I've acquired. Enjoy the update as its nice outside and I don't want to be in front of this computer more than I have to be.

I've been shooting my 500 S&W for about a year now and finally got around to testing the bullet I've been casting for it on wet pack (soaked phone books or other such media). Running a load of 14.5gr of Unique under this bullet it leaves the muzzle around 1100fps. I've only been casting with the large HP pins in the mold but after this test I'm curious to see what the smaller pin will do as the bullet did a poor job of holding together, breaking apart at the bottom of the lube groove.

.502 Mihec mold with Large HP pin option

Next is a 125gr cast HP traveling in the mid to upper 900 fps range in a .38 Special case and we see in the following pictures it gave excellent performance!

Fired out of a .38 Special case, wonderful performance.

Side view of  125gr HP fired out of .38 Special

Next are two 180gr bullets fired out of a 40 S&W. One is a premium HP bullet the other is a very cheap plated bullet that shed its plating somewhere downrange or right out of the muzzle? not sure.

Interesting 

premium expanding bullets vs cheap "FMJ" plated job.

Last but not least is my new one and only 9mm mold (which means I need to return the 9mm molds I've been borrowing from my dad). This one is a 125gr mold with various HP pin options like the .38/357 bullet above. This one has a "penta" hp and it does cause the bullet to expand differently. Bullet was traveling around 1025fps. This bullet neutralized a ground hog with a head shot and penetraded almost the full length of its body. Nothing was left of the brain larger than a tic-tac.  I skinned her out but failed to find the pill as it went in regions I didn't feel like cutting into.

Excellent performance from a cast bullet!

More .38 special & .357 Carbine observations: Now with 5" Gp100 and .38 SC loads

As the weather has turned very nice for us here in NW Ohio I've been able to spend more time on the range. In between helping run matches and doing range work I hauled out a chronograph to try a 2nd test batch of hand-loads I cooked up over the winter and late spring.

I shot these loads over two sessions, the first session was mostly handgun work with some carbine thrown in, the second session was mostly carbine with a few out of the revolver for comparison in velocity only.

Toying with multiple bullet weights I'm trying to get an idea what the carbine and revolver like as a combination. The twist rate in the carbine is 1:16 with 1:18 in the 5" GP100 revolver, although it was easy to find the max bullet weight these twist rates would stabilize I was not able to find what minimums were with velocity and weight, something I would have to toy with myself to see how well it shoots in the end anyways. All my cast bullets are straight wheel weights and lubed with the superb Carnuba Red from lars lube . In this test session I was also able to test bullets from my newly arrived 360640 mold a 125-135gr adjustble mold with removable hallow point pins. I cast about 150 bullets with the large HP pins in place and loaded those up.

First off I tried the odd duckling out of the bunch, I had loaded up a small batch of .38 Short colt rounds using the 125gr 360640 HP bullet the day before hitting the range and wanted to see how they shot (and sounded since the other short colt loads I've tried have been louder than expected) I loaded these with 2.0gr of red dot. The only bad thing was that the chronograph didn't want to read ANY of these rounds out of the revolver? probably operator error there.

All testing in both sessions was performed at a mere 50 yards, the 2nd session I scoped the Carbine with a low power scope for giggle. On to the data, we'll go from short colt to special and then magnum data.

• .38 Short Colt (NOT SPECIAL)- 125gr cast 360640 HP - 2.0gr Red Dot  (shows potential with decent group) 

              77/357- 706,721,743

The above load shows massive efficiency potential if proven in further accuracy testing if you ask me

• .38 Special- 75gr cast wadcutter-3.0gr of Bullseye

          GP100 5"-604,649,672

The above caught my attention as these loads were all assembled at the same time and the fact the velocity kept going up is something that I need to test again. The light 75gr pill might not give enough resistance for super consistent ignition in such a large bore? However 2 of the shots were touching at 50 yards with the 3rd only a few inches away. However the entire group was about 18" under the bull which isn't surprising really looking at the velocity and figuring drop at 50 yards.

• .38 Special -125gr cast 360640 HP- 4.0gr red dot 

           77/357- 1126,1074,1117
           Gp-100 5"- 903,888,872

Nothing really jumped out with the above load,  I'll have to compare this load with my staple 158gr lee SWC over 4.2gr of red dot as I seem to remember I was getting almost 1000fps out of that load in a 4" barreled smith I would have expected at least upper 900's out of a 5" barrel with 4.0gr of red dot and a lighter bullet but then again this is part of learning.

• .38 Special -173gr Keith - 5gr of Unique 

            77/357-1097,1088, did not capture 3rd shot
            GP100 5"-919, 871,910

This load shows a lot of potential in both guns, a heavy 173gr bullet moving at moderate speeds seems to always be the answer, although not that much gain in the carbine over the revolver...fast powder does that I've learned. Accuracy was definitely noted with this load.

• .38 Special- 148gr SPEER factory wadcutter- 2.7gr of Bullseye

           GP100-658,659,625

This "target" load is a staple of many bullseye shooters it seems like and with loads going up to just above 3.0gr of Bullseye there is some velocity to be gained but there really isn't a need when just punching paper. This load is a good place to start when looking for accuracy performance out of a gun. This load shot well in the carbine in previous tests and achieved 750+fps as I stated in the previous "observations" post.

• .357 Magnum 125gr cast 360640 HP-15.0gr of 2400

          77/357 1749,1862,1780
          GP100 5"-1139,1352, did not capture 3rd shot - Erratic velocities between 1 and 2?


The above was a mild .357 load, was just a starting point to move up from I may revisit this load again and move down from it to see what happens to group size.

• .357 Magnum 125gr cast 360640 HP- 16.5gr of 2400 Win primers

          77/357-1885,1904,1943
          Gp100- 1303,1403

• .357 Magnum 125gr cast 360640 HP- 16.5gr of 2400 CCI primers

          77/357-1949,1915,1952
          GP100-1333,1332

The above I shot in the rifle alternating primers between shots It seems like the CCI may be a little more consistent with 2400 in both the carbine and revolver. From here the primers looked good and I felt ok moving on to 17.0gr of 2400 which was still 2.5gr under "max" in one of my books.

• .357 magnum 125gr cast 360640 HP- 17.0gr of 2400

           77/357-1978,1981,2008 (WOW)
           GP100-1403,1443 (no real flash compared to sim loads with jacketed bullets)

I was impressed when I saw the 2008 fps show up on the screen, though its of no real practical value its interesting to note that one can get into the upper 1900's with a pistol caliber carbine. Hitting the bullet energy calculator filling in 1990 for the velocity thats giving us just over 1100 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle.

• .357 Magnum 125gr Jacketed HP- 16.5gr of 2400

            77/357-1888,1888 with confirmed duplicate
            GP100-1285,1274

The above seem VERY consistent in initial testing and its interesting to note here that the handgun velocity as well as rifle velocity was slightly lower with the jacketed bullet than with cast (lead is a natural lubricant...even if it sticks to barrels sometimes)

• .357 Magnum 160gr Cast Wadcutter -12.0gr of 2400

           77/357-crap I forgot to write these down
           GP100-1130,1111,1140

This heavy wadcutter load showed potential in both carbine and revolver. I like the idea of a wadcutter as a hunting bullet

• .357 Magnum 173gr Kieth SWC -12gr 2400

          GP100 5"- 1132,1142

• .357 Magnum 173gr Kieth SWC- 12.5gr 2400

          GP100 5"-1142,1136,1077 

The 2nd load of .357 mag with the 173gr bullet and 2400 had no appreciable gain in velocity in the revolver although if fired in the carbine (didn't load enough ammo for that) it might have shown a little more velocity.

• .357 Magnum 92Gr RN cast 14.0gr of 2400

           77/357-1727- ( I only fired one round over the chrono out of curiosity, solid round nose bullets don't excite me but I was curious what the little pill would do) 

           GP100-1207,1274,1042

• .357 Magnum 148gr Speer wadcutter 5.5gr bullseye

           77/357-1321,1293 (Very accurate with following shots on target)

           GP100-1050,1083,1224 (erratic ?)

• .357 Magnum 158gr Lee SWC 6.5gr unique

           77/357-1656,1570 

           GP100-1259,1308,1226 

          

The above load with 6.5gr unique and the 158gr Lee SWC showed some promise to being a good load in both the revolver and the carbine. This 158gr bullet as I may have mentioned before is one of my favorite bullets for the .38/.357.

       

Some might be annoyed that I didn't go on about what was accurate and what wasn't but this is just a starting place for me to work from. I took further notes on accuracy but nothing was super stellar enough to be passed along, more so I thought the velocity readings were more interesting as from that we can calculate energy....something that we want to know if going afield.

.38 Short Colt....again

Having shot up my small supply of 3.5gr red dot under the 92gr round nose bullet I loaded some more primed cases with 1 grain less...2.5gr of red dot. The results were the same it seemed in report at least, I think I'll start to move away from the light 92gr bullet as moving to a heavier bullet will give me less of a report. I have access to a noise dosimeter and may include that along with a chronograph in the next extensive testing day I have at the range. Just for kicks I'm curious how these loads compare with similarly loaded full length .38 Special loads as the load density (or amount of air space left in the case after bullet has been seated) is significantly lower. The 92gr round nose were what I had on hand really for initial testing and I feel comfortable moving to a heavier bullet (105gr Lee or heavier as previously mentioned) The short colt although loaded with a heavier bullet might be made to the same OAL as a .38 special loaded flush with a wadcutter, something I happened to notice that somebody else pointed out on another forum when researching this round.

The accuracy with these loads has been "ok" nothing stellar and nothing tested over 25 yards as the drop is significant past that distance, a quick guess on the ballistic calculator has it dropping over 36" at 100 yards if its clocking around 600 fps and a mere 24" if its getting 750 fps out of the muzzle.

Closing thought, check the chamber for leading build up just like you would with .38 special and check back for more info.

.38 Short colt range report

Note- If you're waiting for the book reviews I mentioned I would try and have up don't hold your breath the weather turned nice early this year and I've started a full time job so reading time has been curtailed. Right on with what we're here for.

I had a chance this weekend to try out some of the .38 Short colt loads I made up last week in my 77 Bolt action. First observation was not all my magazines wanted to actually load all 5 rounds, Something about the helical design of the magazine and the short stubby cases made the magazine jam after loading 3 rounds. However the magazine will pretty reliably load 3 rounds. The second observation was the short case has feeding issues if the bolt is not cycled smartly. The resulting jam is the bullet partially falls into the void in front of the next round in the magazine and catching on the rim. Easy to clear but annoying to say the least. When I shot the first magazine I was impressed with the odd noise these loads made, Not really a snap or pop like one is used to but more like a too large paper bag being popped nearby, doesn't really make an impressive pop but just kind of makes a noise as it bursts.  Not a clue what velocity was,although I think its safe to say this was a max load (3.5gr of red dot under a 92gr cast round nose) I'll try lighter loads of red dot and eventaully bullseye and see what accuracy is. At 50 yards I had 5 shot groups that were fist size easily. Just for fun I tried a few shots at 200 yards, the drop at that range is around 25 feet best I could tell.  I did not get a chance to try these out of a revolver of any sort much to my regret as I'm curious what the report would have been like from those. I have brass primed and ready to load and everything is still set up to load these so I'll load them up again and make a hard metal note to test in a wheel gun.  Hopefully another long range session with a chronograph is around the corner as I have many test loads waiting to be fired through the 77/357 and GP100 combination.

A preface to my.38 Short Colt idea

Being a re-loader and a tinkerer one tends to look at how to get more versatility out of the tools he has at his disposal (even if there is no REAL need). Now there is nothing wrong with light .38 special loads, a light load of bullseye and a just about any bullet will give you surprisingly good performance out of a revolver or a carbine (bolt action, lever or single shot). But as we all know you have to experiment and see what else is out there and when looking at light loads for the .38 special the .38 short colt came up. It turns out shooters who get their .38/357 wheel guns cut for moon clips will use the .38 short colt in them as they load into the gun easier. Not something we're really worried about here, this is mostly just a educational venture but still fun. The .38 short colt is a case roughly the same length as the 9mm Luger, the similarities are very close except for the rim.  Most shooters are familiar with being able to shoot 38 special in a .357 magnum but few are familiar with the .38 short colt and .38 long colt being compatible in these guns as well, and for good reason. Both are obsolete except in specialized guns and the competitions those guns are used in.  My interest in the cartridge lies strictly with its physical characteristics. My thinking is the short stubby case takes up less room than a standard .38 special case (in a stock pouch like what I've put on my 77/357). I can also at a glance discern a light load from a magnum load. This is all theory right now of course, but it looks good on paper. I can carry one of my 5 round rotary magazines loaded with the .38 short colt loads and one with .357 magnum hot to trot loads. This could be the best of both worlds but only testing will tell. 

Its pretty obvious which magazine holds the light load and which holds the heavy one.

I decided to make 50 .38 Short colt cases out of .38 special brass just to try as a comparison to .38 special loads.  I'll post pictures of how I made the brass later but the use of a mini chop saw, a trimmer and a deburr tool is paramount to stress free case modifications. I've done the tubing cutter thing in the past and it was a lot of 4 letter and $1 words.

.38 Short Colt loads are not that easy to come by however it seems several people recommend using reduced 9mm cast loads as starting points so that is what I decided to go with. As the case has roughly the same dimensions  same  Going to my Lyman cast bullet book I decided to try a load of  3.5gr of Red dot under a ~92gr round nose. Round nose bullets are not what I would use "out in the wild" as they tend to over penetrate and not disperse there energy effectively. I plan on using a 105gr Lee semi wad cutter after I get a sampling of bullets cast, sized and lubed. For now I'll just play around with the 92gr round nose and see what kind of results I get with it. 

.38 Short colt brass and loaded cartridges made from .38 Special cases

Lee loader : Reloading for economy and fun!

It seems as though every reloading company has some "eternal" product that carries on and on and sets the standard in its niche. As far as "intro to reloading" goes the Lee Loader fills that niche with honors. Its been made to reload just about any major shoulder fired cartridge case and hull you can imagine (short of 50bmg...but even then I'm sure there is somebody who has copied the Lee loader for the 50BMG). Here is a good place to start as a primer on lee loaders


The Lee loader is hands down the most economic way to load ammunition for your rifle, pistol or shotgun. Even if you are a veteran reloader you can not help not giving due credit to this overly simple and effective tool.

The Appeal- Say you purchase a rifle like the Savage Axis in 30/06....you don't shoot but maybe 80 rounds a year to hunt and keep in good shooting form with. You really dislike the $1 a shot and then some for the ammo you are seeing on the shelves. While looking at the reloading kits at one of the "worlds largest outfitter stores" you see this little "lee loader -30/06" you do some research and for under $30 you can be set up to load yourself ammo instead of what may have been a lot more for press, dies and all offending accessories.

A few caveats with this line of thinking, you also will need a good powder scale, primers, bullets and a hard rubber mallet DO NOT USE your claw hammer. Other than that you are set to go.

Pro tip- Even if you are loading on a STURDY bench you may still want to use a large steel block under your set up to absorb the pounding so items on said bench don't migrate off bench.

Today we'll be loading some .38 special since I've been shooting that caliber a lot lately. The pistol dies are a little different than the rifle dies but they all perform the same basic tasks and the same theory is behind both sets.

First we grab our decapping rod and decapping chamber and with our RUBBER mallet we drive the primer out. Decap all your cases first.

Pro tip- If you are handy and you have the material cutting a notch in your steel block (or dense wood?) so that the spent primer falls into a tray or other bin of sometype will speed up the process some. Having spent primers floating all around is not good.

Step 1 remove primer

Rubber mallet- Yes its an import but it goes with our affordability theme here....also my older plastic mallet kind of gave up the ghost.

Don't even think about using this!!!!!

Step 2: hammer case flush with die

Grab your priming base/bullet seater combination tool.

Place primer in hole

Set die with case facing down on top of priming tool

Lightly tap, get a feel for this step and go slow, check primer about halfway through to ensure its seated straight and true

A coffee mug is great for pouring powder into to scoop from, After your done loading pour powder back into original container. Never leave powder out when you are not loading ammo.

Now here is one area I get a little fussy with when it comes to the included scoop supplied with the lee loader. This scoop is the .5cc scoop, it is supposed to throw a 4.6gr charge of unique....ok well thats all fine and good but when I weighed the charge it did throw it came out to 3.9gr everysingle time. Still a safe minimum as per some load books however this is a good reason to have a powder scale on hand so you know what charge the scoop throws. DON'T TRUST WHAT THEY SAY IT SHOULD THROW.

PRO TIP- If you have a good powder measure you can take a fired case like a 9mm and wrap some medium weight wire arounds its base, now you can use this as a scoop and file the case shorter until you get the charge you are wanting, A coat of nail polish on the outside with a sharpie label can let you know what scoop is for what powder and exact charge it was made to throw. Cheap and effective!

In goes our powder

 Next we take our combination tool and adjust the bullet seater stem a little at a time and trial fit until we get the bullet seated to where we want it.

Adjusting the seater requires loosening the lock ring and running down the stem in the pistol set.

 We may or may not flare the case mouth at this point, I forgot to take a picture of that process but no biggie, next the bullet is dropped in and seater is situated on top.

Whack-a-mole that bullet into place (gently)

Pro tip- Again if you are handy I would highly suggest making a sort of tool rack for the rods, flare tool and bases. putting each tool back after each use and in the order you use them would make loading even faster. Also a scrap block of wood drilled with a spade bit can make a marvelous loading block on the cheap! And its good for the environment!?

And presto- We loaded a round of .38 special

If we wish to crimp our bullet we simply flip the die over to the side we poured the powder through and placing the bullet nose down tap lightly with our mallet a few times to get the desired crimp. It does not take much so check after a few taps and you will get the feel for it quickly.

About a round a minute is doable

I have shown how a single round of pistol ammunition can be loaded very cheaply, quickly and with minimal tools. I have a very extensive reloading set up with lots of fancy equipment however loading with the lee loader is as simple as you can get and very enjoyable. If a man was stuck in a cabin for awhile I would much rather load my ammo with one of these than the nicest progressive press out there. Its fun, its simple and relatively safe. The lee loader is perhaps all you might ever need to satisfy your ammunition consumption. OR it could be a great way to find out of reloading is something you want to dive deeper into. These kits are hands down great for the beginner who is learning on their own and has the time to do it right and read up on it.

The link below goes to the instructions for the Lee Loader in its pistol form.

http://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/RE1423.pdf

PAK-TOOL -A point of interest in reloading equipment

I came across this little hand press reloading tool called the "PAK-TOOL"  in an estate that was being liquidate. This tool is supposed to be a compact tool for the cabin, range bench or where ever you need a compact tool to load your ammo. It seems to have been offered in quite a few calibers. I won't be reloading any ammo with this tool but I thought I would post it here as a point of interest, not something you see very often and surely something I have never come across until now. The tool uses proprietary dies, shell holders and rods to perform all the steps necessary.  ALL the parts are proprietary, nothing translates over to other dies, presses or what have you. This particular tool was set up for 45-70 but also included shell holders for a few other calibers of which the dies were not present. Its an interesting idea but it didn't seem to take off. 

It looks more complicated than it actually is and the press itself is very well thought out.

Instructions

The instructions make it seem more complicated than it actually is as well.....the inventor could have benefited from a Kaizen mentor. 

Winchester 94 1968 Bent carrier : or : Winchester breaks A John Browning design....

There are few things I hate more than a well designed gun, economized to the point the basic function of said firearm is jeopardized. From my readings there was a span in the mid-late 60's that Winchester not only changed the steel of their receivers to take some butt ugly looking bluing but they also used stamped carriers that more often than not BENT with little use of the gun. Luckily I was able to secure a machined carrier to replace in my '68 vintage 94 and we're back up and running. The 94 is such a simple design believe it or not and has a lot of features one may not realize existed, such as a built in firing pin safety in which when the lever is actuated it actually cams the firing pin back away from the breech face. John Browning designed it so you know its a solid design...well that and its over 110 years old now so for it to survive this long it had to be....  My particular gun is in 30-30 as most of these rifles were. Its a "beater" of sorts. The 40 year old firing pin also needs replaced so we are waiting on that part still....however looking at how simple the thing is and cost of replacements I may just make one really quick on the lathe with the use of a ball turning turret to ensure the correct taper is achieved.

A quick 15 minutes turned my 94 into a puzzle of parts.

Bent stamped carrier on top, machined carrier on bottom, NOTE bottom carrier is shorter, this made me think it was the wrong carrier but it is not!

Function proven with the use of snap caps, range test next....after the firing pin is replaced of course.

Williams FP-RU-77 sight installation on a Ruger 77/357 : or : NECG sight need not apply....wouldn't mind trying a Skinner though.

Most Ruger rifles leave something to be desired in sights, mostly their rear sights. It's the same with other "field" type rifles such as remington 700's and such. I've never been able to shoot well with the rear notch type sight as it does not offer the accuracy I am looking for. Now I can hit stuff with the notch sight but its not what I prefer....kind of like Tom selleck's character from Quigley down under...."I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it". Anyways I went on a search for a rear sight for this 77/357 as the flip up notch rear wasted sight radius and does not allow for easy adjustment. Now NECG does make a "drop in" rear sight but they wanted too much for the dang thing and it looks butt ugly, and this is coming from a guy that thinks Mosin Nagants are beautiful. That and you give up your ability to mount a scope if you ever wanted to put one on for whatever reason without loosing your zero. Skinner sights makes a lovely replacement and is easily adjustable, you retain the factory sight radius though.  My solution was to find and install a FP-RU 77 rear sight on my receiver. FP=Foolproof...except these 77/357 receivers are not drilled from the factory so we'll have to do it ourselves. No worries, we have the technology!

123 blocks, hold downs and brass shims are used. Receiver only needs to be flat since we are drilling one hole at a time.

I'll be drilling the receiver on my Bridgeport mill, the cast stainless receiver is much softer than I anticipated. This made things a lot easier as far as tapping and drilling went. My first problem was finding a way to mount the receiver level in on the mill table, two 123 blocks were used under the receiver. A pair of hold downs and brass shims to keep the receiver from getting scratched were also utilized. The 77/357 receiver has a few high spots that you need to be aware of so you are sure the frame is level. The sharpie lines you can see are my guides as I free drill the 1st hole, making sure to not get into the bottom of the reciever just below the raceway. My goal was to be just a few thousandths above it and the first hole is drilled all the way through and tapped. I reversed the drill bit in the chuck while setting up so I got a accurate measurement as to where the hole needed to be.

Side view of set up.

Lots of magic tap is used while drilling the hole....I have to say I was a little nervous in drilling as I only had one chance to get it right. A #31 drill bit was used to tap the hole for the 6-48 threads.

First hole drilled, now since I don't have a fancy jig for hole spacing  I'll remove the receiver and tap the first hole. At that point I will install the sight, make sure it is level and then go off of that for the second hole using the tap installed in the chuck to make sure the base is where I want it for the second hole.

Tiny tap handle with tiny tap! 6-48 tap shown. A taper tap was used although a bottoming or plug tap is shown.

Here is where I messed up..as in I forgot to take pictures...through the magic of the internet I will just skip the the sight base installed with the stock already inletted (easily done). The stock needed trimmed down about 1/4" to allow the sight to sit as low as possible. The stock being solid in this area took the modification easily. Once both holes were drilled and tapped I cleaned them up with a file on the inside to break the hanging chips away and stoned the outside lightly after tapping it off so as not to scratch the receiver. This ensures the base will mount flush. When tapping it is important that the tap is square with the receiver, lots of tap magic is used again and chips are cleared away very often. After we are done with tapping we clean up the receiver with brake cleaner and a air hose, making sure all the chips are gone. Then we install the sight, oil up the parts that need it and we're ready for the range!

Sight installed, everything is level and ready for the range! I can still install a scope on the 2nd rear mounting area and have my irons as a back up! looks a lot better than I thought it would. 

MiHec 360640 with options!

I'm a member over at castboolits.gunloads.com and to say we love our cast boolits is an understatement. Every once in a while we'll get together and commission custom molds. Below is one that is currently being produced (no additional order are being taken, buys close when the mold starts production). I'm looking forward to it for my 38/357 carbine/revolver combination. I've often heard how good the 125gr bullet is in the .357 Mag and this little pill should offer some good range sessions by the looks of it!  There were two options given to us, we could either go with a gas check or without. I went without  a check as bullets sized and lubed correctly (I love my carnuba red) should not lead. MiHec is the manufacturer of the molds, I have one other custom mold from him for my .500 S&W and its simply a work of art. 

I'm also waiting on 2 other custom molds, one heavier 38/357 mold and a additional mold for .375 H&H

Lee speed die 357 magnum 38 special picture comparison

As promised previously pictures of the .357 speed die and its parts (left parts) and .38 special speed die parts (right) in comparison. The die body has internal differences, also the carbide inserts are slightly different.  Obviously the decap/flare stem and seater stems are different.  

P.S. As spring approaches rather rapidly I hope to have at least two and at most three more book reviews up before I officially leave the reading room for the range for the season.

.357 Magnum and .38 Special LEE Speed die update : Observations

In my .357 Magnum Speed die post  I pondered what made the .357 mag speed die specific to .357 magnum. I fathomed  that it was only the decap flare stem that made it .357 specific but alas I was wrong! In fact not only is the decap flare stem different, the die body itself has different INTERNAL dimensions...Looks like just over 1/8"  which is how much longer the .357 is to the .38 special. But the bullet seater stem is longer in the .38 special set as well, which makes sense since it would have to reach further down into the die to seat a bullet.

Picture of compared parts coming soon, If you are looking at getting one of these speed dies to load both 38 special and .357 mag I'm sorry but it will not work. The dies are very cartridge specific as the the case lengths are different .135" difference actually.  The whack a mole type lee loader will work for both .357 magnum as well as .38 Special as will most 3 or 4 die sets.  Would you rather have 2 dies to load 2 cartridges or 3 dies to load two cartridges when those 3 dies are still in production and widely available.

Sorry for any inconvenience I may have caused on this assumption of interchangeability. I myself would have liked to see one speed die be able to load both as that would have made a very handy on the range set up for testing. Stay safe out there.

Lee loader overview: or : possible reloading tools for beginners

As winter gives us here in Ohio another round of 10° highs and constant wind with sputtering precipitation I start to think more about long days spent out at the range.  Even though simple pleasures like ringing the steel gong at 200 yards is still weeks away I have (as some of you may have noticed with my recent trend of posts) been obsessing over the .38 special / .357 Magnum combination, range time with the new carbine has been exceedingly limited. But as I mentioned in this post about the 38/357 carbine teamed up with like chambered revolvers  I wanted simplicity and utility in a revolver/carbine package that would be hard to beat. For going on 2 years now some ammo like .22LR has been cost prohibitive for a lot of folks, myself included in fact. No, we are not hurting for ammo at the wonderwolf residence but we aren't acting like we're in a time of plenty either. The way I see it is its more important now than ever to make every shot count. If you're not learning something from every pull of the trigger (even in dry firing) then you're not bettering yourself as a rifleman.  Reloading as has been mentioned before can save money, time and resources are your limiting factor. Getting the most utility out of your chosen tools (be it sewing kit, firearm, lathe/mill, car) is important.  Simplicity when starting to reload is important so you understand the basics steps and learn what to look for. As you see your need grow you can determine if its worthwhile to put more resources into tooling. Start with a few select books on the subject if you are just starting out, here is a good place to start if you are not sure where to look .  

"Lee loaders" through the years, these 4 boxed sets show the various ways these tools have come packaged.

                          

Reloading equipment-

The most basic tool for reloading a complete round of ammunition be it metallic or a shot-shell cartridge is the "Lee Loader".  Economic and somewhat versatile the "LL" is designed to offer everything except the components to load ammunition. A note here however, these dies in the bottle neck cases ,30/06, 223, 30-30 etc only neck size. As you will find in the directions you are instructed to only use cases that have been fired in your gun. Which works out well if you think about it, save your brass for that Savage axis in 30/06 or Ruger American  and when you go to load it with this kit you'll only be neck sizing for your rifle, something that can aid in accuracy as well as brass life though your mileage may vary. Lee comments that cases fired in pump, semi or lever actions gun can not be reloaded with these kits. I imagine that this mostly applies to the bottle neck/tapered cases. However I would keep this in mind no matter what gun you are looking at reloading for.

Top left and top center kit are pistol kits, top right kit is 30/06 , bottom is .410 shotgun kit.
If you take a closer look you'll note 2 of the kits are missing parts, Common when it comes to used kits. Easy to fix though if you have a lathe. 

Pistol kits come with a flare tool as most pistol bullets have a very flat base and do not start as easy as rifle bullets with which boat tails or bevel bases are more common. If you find yourself wanting to flare your rifle cases I recommend being a little resourceful and look for a short punch at the hardware store that would give you a little flare...not much is needed however so beware. Lee makes a universal flare die for presses but that is outside the scope of this post.

A complete .38 special lee loader kit, Note this kit can also be used to load .357 Magnum as well.

The major parts of the .38 special set can be seen below, not much to it really. Midway currently sells the most if not all lee loader kits for $27.99.....How much is a box of 20 rounds for that 30/06 or .38 special again?

Pistol kit parts, Decapping chamber,  capping rod, priming base & bullet seater, flare tool, die body, decap rod & powder measure appropriate to caliber. All that is needed to convert to .357 mag would be a different powder measure (or scale) and load data.

Rifle set has a lot in common with the pistol set, die body is a 2 part die however, adjustable for bullet seating depth.

Incomplete 30/06 die set (missing decap stem, something I'll make on the lathe later), Note the die body on this set has a little more to it, the bullet seating depth is adjusted by adjusting the die body instead of a knurled knob on the bullet seater as can be seen with the pistol set. 

Although Lee no longer makes the shotgun shell loaders as pictured below they can still be readily found online for sale in various places as well as at gun shows. I have been told that it was a different "LEE" company that produced the shot-shell loaders. They probably went through some restructuring at some point and came out a new company. I'm not sure on this but LEE does not support the shot-shell loaders any longer.

.410 Shotshell kit, Powder & shot dippers, skive tool decap rod, priming rod, wad/crimp tamp and die body.

That gets most of the information out of the way I wanted to get out there before I started reviewing the individual dies, the end product they make and their accuracy. As time and weather permits I will post tests and results, for accuracy I'll be using the 30/06 dies out of a bolt action scoped rifle I have handy. 

I'll also make mention at this point that as I believe I said in my review of the "LEE LOAD MANUAL" the instructions for most all of their products are in the manual (load book) if you are curious about starting to reload this book is a good one to have besides "The ABC's of reloading". And as always if you don't know if you want to put money out yet for books.....check your local library! Stay safe out there.

Cost of reloading: or : 22LR in stock ?

 This post is meant for folks who reload or thinking about starting to reload, to everybody else you may be bored by the following. In preparation for the aforementioned lee loader review I wanted to share a fun fact I discovered a few months ago while talking about the availability of .22 LR with some other shooting folks. It seems to me that some people in the firearms culture are static when it comes to ammo availability. They obsess over what they can't get instead of seeing the opportunity to see what they can get in order to prepare for the next "paradigm" shift we will experience in this crazy world. IE.....primers are widely available right now, remember in 2007/8 or so when primers were none existent on shelves? AR mags were kind of the same thing there for awhile as well. Now .22 LR has seemed to have held on the longest to being absent from the shelves.

 Now, that isn't the fun fact I discovered....the fact is reloading (small center fire pistol) is now cheaper than buying .22LR ammunition (even cheaper if you are REALLY lucky and get it for shelf price of  $27) but it seems like everybody has it (2nd hand) at $60 per 550 round bulk packs. This isn't a new fact really for those of us who have reloaded for awhile, but it wasn't until now when I actually looked at the cost and was kind of pleased to see what it was(n't) costing me to shoot as often as I like.

Lets take a look at the numbers really quick, these are prices I have paid within the last 3 months. Store shelf purchased, no special deals here. Though I will admit availability in your area will vary. obviously reloading equipment is not factored in.

1lb of Bullseye powder- $19
1,000 small pistol primers $30
Lead is for the taking really, you just have to know where to look.
Brass...you've been saving your brass haven't you? I have only traded or picked up all the pistol brass I have with few exceptions.


Now on that 1lb of Bullseye, if  I'm throwing a common 2.7gr charge it will give me 2592 charges, that is less than 7/10 of a penny per round. Let that sink in for a moment and at the same time remember .22LR is selling between $.05 and $.11 per round....with some brands going for more. The proof is in the math however, start multiplying and we quickly see that in 500 rounds of .38 special we've only used $3.66 worth of powder. Primers??? $15 for that same 500 rounds. That's $18.66 for 500 rounds of ammo.....

You can get well into reloading for under $100, you really don't need much in fact the most expensive thing is going to be a good powder scale. Even if you use a lee loader you will want a good powder scale to double check your charges. Used lee loaders are everywhere and affordable. Even if you want to get into die sets you can still do it for under $100 with a press. My point is be dynamic to the situation, learn to be resourceful as well as frugal as time permits (and resources). If you're not happy with the availability of one commodity like .22 rimfire, don't focus on it especially while the price is so high. Instead look elsewhere for the things you need.

A 2 cavity mold would cost you somewhere around $20 or so from lee, smelting pots can be found cheap at garage sales or flea markets (plumbers pots as well).

This is also a good argument for staying with common calibers like 40 S&W and 9mm.....I don't think I will ever have a want for 9mm brass for all the range pick up I have, same with 40 S&W....and .223 rem in fact. Now obviously there are lots of exceptions, if you have a 50bmg or a 5.7x28 or any other cost not a factor type gun and you don't reload and have not won the lottery or are otherwise well off then reloading is a way for you to shoot that firearm more. Nobody is a master of a safe queen, practice practice practice. May be time to look at options that would allow you more range time, true you may have to buy a gun in a different caliber....but last I checked not a single one of us ever complained about that. Just remember to clean/lube that .22LR gun before you put it up for awhile, this foolishness with the .22 ammo may go on for some time.

Practical Dope On The BIG BORES- By Fred C. Ness

As we continue to skim the bookshelves of home and the library another promising volume comes up packed with information....some obsolete and some useful. "Practical Dope on The BIG BORES" By Ness is a 300+ page reference work on everything from where his book on the .22's left off. In fact this book goes all the way up to the .50 cal cartridges including the .50 BMG. If you have read "PD on .22's" then you would quickly gather  that Ness loves to hunt varmints and do most of his testing on them. "PD on The BB's" starts of course with some smaller big bores in the 25 caliber range and their use on varmints and the like, in fact all the way through the book Ness discuses a good many varmint loads for the various big bore rifles excluding the very large ones however. The book printed after WWII of course has a lot of obsolete load data with obsolete components, however one would be surprised at how much still remains today with some calibers, the bullets they use and powder still in use....proven load combinations that have stood the test of time. The book covers some very obscure cartridges and is packed with great ballistic data as well, great for those interested in the progression of precision performance hunting rifles post WWII. I found a great wealth of knowledge covering America's favorite center fire hunting cartridge the 30/06 as well...Ness dedicates a large number of pages to various loads for the famous '06 including yes....varmint loads sporting pulled 93gr .30 cal luger bullets. Brown bear as well as moose loads with 220gr bullets are also talked about and everything in between that and those little 93gr pills. The book as stated before is older but we find it still has a lot of  great information on design, ballistics and challenges overcome by what was then cutting edge technology.....or desperation for needed performance out of what was at hand.

"Practical Dope On The BIG BORES" By Ness is a great book to add to your library and read if you are the kind of person that is interested in attaining a more intimate understanding of the performance requirements of rifle, cartridge, powder and bullet of choice for either target work or deep woods hunting. You might not agree with everything contained in the 300 some odd pages but a lot of good information is covered all of which gets a body (novice or advanced) thinking about the physics of bullet performance. 

The copy used in this review was obtained through my local library loan program but I sure will be on the lookout for a copy for myself as I learned a great deal and desire a permanent copy for future reference. Like Ness' previous book  this one was a copy of a special 1500 edition run.